bank card

Category Bookmark : Because I run a small business I have multiple bank accounts with one of the "big four" banks here in the UK. As banks go they aren't too bad (although that is like saying that as diseases go Malaria isn't too bad don't think I actually like these guys). So at the weekend a package arrived containing my new card reader that I have to use to get into online banking. In the past I needed to know two user IDs some personal information and a password to log into each of my accounts. Now in addition to that I undergo to put my bank card into this card reader enter the PIN for the card and then type another 8 digit number to log in. It's classic dual factor authentication and it's absolutely crazy. Frankly the old system was more than secure enough. All that the new system will bring home the bacon is to make me log in to the site less frequently as it is such a palaver. I genuinely can't think of a reason why they have gone this far with the security if someone is foolish enough to give out their personal details two secret (and hard to guess) user IDs and their password then frankly they deserve what they get. Setting aside the absurdness of the over-security when I tried to log in yesterday (taxes to pay thanks Gordon) I couldn't actually get in at all any more. The reason which was discovered after nearly an hour on the telecommunicate was that my personal bank card has now been tied to my business account. So to log in to my business bank be I have to partially use business details and partially personal details. Their response when I asked how it was going to be fixed... "Well you have both sets of details so you can just live with it"! This from a affiliate which last year made over seven billion punds acquire. That's more than fourteen billion dollars. And the worst thing is that moving banks is not really an option they are all as bad as each other. - Urghh!That's just stupid. I'm using RBS and at times they are a bit annoying but the online part is pretty good atm. One login consisting of user number (inc date of birth). 3 of 4 digits from a pin and another 3 chars from a longer password gives access to all my RBS accounts. If I want to transfer money or set up a standing order etc I have to give a further 3 chars from the password. The only problem I ever had was when I forgot one of the chars and they locked me out (after 3 goes). Once that had happened they would not just re-activate it so I had to go through the whole affect of enrolling for the function and bits of actual paper being signed etc. It was a pain but I can see the security acquire. It's all a change off - I am so glad I am not the only one who resents these awful PinSentry devices. Barclays have really lost the plot with this one. I reckon they have some stupid IT boff working in the back offices somewhere who's made this idiotic recommendation. Just like you used to see in thier adverts when they portrayed thier staff as those caring baphoons working hard inventing new revolutionary ideas for future banking. Unfortunatley I have ordered my card reader aswell after failing to set up an SO. However after learning from your above posts and with some common sense of my own. I have decided to always click "no" when it asks me if I have recieved my card reader or not. Although i experience this is temporary short fix. What I don't understand is why don't they leave this 'nanny security' just for setting up SO's and give applications? I mean is it neccessary for someone to have this stupid device just to log onto thier account and just to view thier bank fit aswell? If I logged in the old way and someone had ALL my details to login aswell (highly unlikely). How much damage would they be able to do by just simply viewing my bank fit? - Atleast I'd be able to watch my account whilst on holiday in France hey without carrying this dreadful device around everywhere. BARCLAYS CUSTOMER RESEARCH - IF YOUR READING THESE COMMENTS THEN TAKE NOTE! - I am so glad I am not the only one who resents these awful PinSentry devices.<br /> <br />Barclays have really lost the plot with this one. I reckon they have some stupid IT boff working in the approve offices somewhere who's made this idiotic recommendation. Just like you used to see in thier adverts when they portrayed thier staff as those caring baphoons working hard inventing new revolutionary ideas for future banking.<br /><br />Unfortunatley I undergo ordered my card reader aswell after failing to set up an SO. However after learning from your above posts and with some common sense of my own. I have decided to always click "no" when it asks me if I have recieved my card reader or not. Although i know this is temporary bunco fix.<br /><br />What I don't understand is why don't they leave this 'nanny security' just for setting up SO's and give applications? <br />I mean is it neccessary for someone to undergo this stupid device just to log onto thier account and just to view thier bank balance aswell? <br /><br />If I logged in the old way and someone had ALL my details to login aswell (highly unlikely). How much damage would they be able to do by just simply viewing my bank balance? - Atleast I'd be able to check my be whilst on pass in France hey without carrying this dreadful device around everywhere.<br /><br />BARCLAYS CUSTOMER investigate - IF YOUR READING THESE COMMENTS THEN TAKE say! - @17 - Kerr it seems like a genuine if fairly badly informed comment. I'll leave for the moment.@16 - As far as I know the liability of losses from online banking undergo not transferred to the customer so the risk is not with me but with Barclays if my be gets hacked. As for the 2 letters guessing mention you get three goes at guessing two letters from what is for me a complex random password. I am quite happy with the old system's compromise of security and usability. The new Pinsentry system is skewed too far towards the impression of security in my view. That being said my approach of pre-generating the keys for logging in seems to work OK for me it is just hugely less secure than the old system. Matt - Hi all. I've been following this thread and I especially liked Eddy's opinion : "Can’t wait until some smart ass hacks into this stupid thing making thier whole expensive new venture completely futile." - This may appear like a joke but I think devices similar to PIN Sentry readers are already being developed by relevant mafia organizations they look and work the same and the only difference is that they have a mobile device built in that forwards your PIN number as you enter it along with all the data stored on your card's magnetic bar give it some measure lets see what Barclays is to say about that. Oh hang on... I think I experience what they'll say : "You should never ever use 3rd party devices unless they are approved by Barclays" - excellent what if I was sent one by post in a letter that would seem to originate from Barclays' encouraging me to replace my current device with a new one for security reasons ? LOL.

Forex Groups - Tips on Trading

Related article:
http://www.11tmr.com/11tmr.nsf/d6plinks/MWHE-78VBV6

comments | Add comment | Report as Spam

Remember this is an open forum! Anyone can post so always exercise caution when acting on info. Don't post links for personal gain. Except in the section and always declare any interest. Hi there If anybody can offer me any advice to my situation I would gratefully appreciate it. I listed my laptop for sale on ebay. Last monday someone brought it buy now while I was away from home. She got my personnal details from ebay and called me many times to find out when she could collect as she had paid for the item. She said she was local so I said it would be no problem to collect on the monday night. She did collect and laptop and i gave her £20 cash as she said she had paid for postage but infact she was collecting. I thought fine all is good sold the laptop sent the money to my bank account which went in friday. Today I get notified by paypal that they have put my account £500 in the red as they have claimed back the money as the buyer had paid on a fruadulant card. They now want me to top up my account with £500 and are not offering any help with the fraudulanty obtained laptop. They said call the police which I have done but they say they cant do much as it is paypal who let the card through even though it was fraudulant. So now I owe paypal £500 which I dont want to give them as I would have no money for ny selling the laptop. Does anybody know where I stand? Can they go to my bank account and withdraw this money withoutme authorizing it? Should they be liable as they took the dodgy card not me? what about the bank that issued the card shoul they not honour the payment help? yummy It's a really really bad idea to accept paypal on a collection item - even if the credit card payment HADN'T been fraudulent you wouldn't have any proof that the buyer had ever received the item. Not only that but the fraudulent buyer is geographically untraceable - they could have come from anywhere. I would go to the police with any details for that buyer that you have. The problem is they could be the details for the GENUINE account holder and nothing to do with the scammer at all. But it couldn't hurt. Report the laptop as stolen - take the serial number. Someone else may be along to advise how you can fight paypal and their debt collectors - it's not really my forte. sorry but it aint looking good for you inform the police now if you accept paypal you only send item to a confirmed address and sent by a trackable system ie special delivery never let the buyer collect except for cash on collection. Poor you indeed - this is a very bitter pill to swallow but I think you're on a hiding to nowhere with this. You've been had an Paypal won't offer you any support. Sorry but I think you'll just have to chalk it up to experience. I hope your laptop explodes into a thousand pieces and your horrible buyer gets what she deserves. I sold an item on ebay for about £200 & the buyer paid using paypal. I sent the item to the address (on his paypal account) by special delivery then about a month later I had £200 taken out of my paypal account & an email from Paypal saying that a stolen credit card had paid for my item. Luckily for me (I thought) I still had the proof of posting special delivery & obtained proof of delivery & signature from Royal Mail. After weeks of emails,faxes & phone calls I was told by paypal I was not entitled to get my money back. I was not told exactly why but received a standard email which is obviously sent to everyone with this problem & told to refer to the T&C's. If you have reported it to the Police & Paypal just hope that someone pulls their finger out. Good luck anyway!! Dan Have reported it to the police they have given me an incedent number - what good that is i dont know?The police man did say i should try and seek legal advise as paypal accepted payments for 2 other ebay sellers before they did me over.. so by then they should have realised something is a miss and stopped them from using the fraudulant card. I cant belive how horrible people are Only new advice that I can give is ask on the eBay Community Q&A board as well. I'm surprised that PayPal can shaft you for the loss when it's their systems that should be verifying that the card payment was genuine. Best of luck Only new advice that I can give is ask on the eBay Community Q&A board as well. I'm surprised that PayPal can shaft you for the loss when it's their systems that should be verifying that the card payment was genuine. Best of luck I'm sorry but I;m going to sound terse here but this has happened due to a fundemental misunderstanding about how paypal works. Regardless of whether the card was fraudulent or not paypal require a tracked delivery proof for goods. so the OP has not only been scammed they had left themselves completely vulnerable to a chargeback by not reading and/or understanding the paypal basic requirements. I like paypal and I often defend it on here but I must add a plea that no one uses it PLEASE unless they understand what they are doing. Even if this goes to law and the OP can track down the person who collected it which seems unlikely the buyer only has to deny collecting the item and then what? Think this through logically how can the OP prove beyond doubt that this laptop was collected? I am really becoming increasingly concerned about inexperienced or naive people being signed up for paypal without any requirement to understand it. Yet I can see no way round the problem. I'm sure if paypal required people to do a tutorial everyone would be up in arms about the 'nanny' system assuming they are too dim to work paypal. yet how else can we protect people? The system as it stands is correct buyers must be protected as they rely 100% on the system to protec them and I'm sure none of us would want a system where a seller does not have to prove that the goods have reached the buyer. otherwise every scammer going would be claiming to have our signature on a a bit of paper 'proving' item was collected. So that leaves a system where a seller needs to protect themselves and 99.9% of us do but how do we protect the rest from themselves? I'm sorry this post seems so bitter but at this time of year the scammers and thieves (and yes these people are criminals) are out in force looking for naive people to scam and I can see no way of stopping them while people use paypal without any understanding of it. We can't get to these people to warn them usually the firstthing we see on MSE is where it has already gone wrong so what else can we do to protect newer sellers? At Martin's request I have been asked to point out I'm the Board Guide for the and the board which means I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly and I can move and change posts there. However do remember board guides don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to (it's not part of my role to deal with abuse). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert com Have you tried to find this 'person'? you can try bt com or 192 com just in case the scammer is stupid enough to use her real name and address. What details do ebay give for her? It can sometimes be as easy as typing her name/ address into google - you would be amazed what it can throw up. I'm always amazed by the sheer number of people who do not realise that you should never accept paypal for collection items - I saved someone nearly £2000 on another (non ebay) forum when they asked about a situation just like this. Fair points. Since reading a few posts. I've been surprised just how easy it would have been to scam 90% of my sellers (non-trackable post). Aside from leaving themselves open to the "I never picked it up" scam do you know the specifics of the PayPal dodgy card element of the OP's problem? I had (naively) assumed that any deliberate card fraud would be PayPal's problem as the seller never even sees the card number. do you know the specifics of the PayPal dodgy card element of the OP's problem? I had (naively) assumed that any deliberate card fraud would be PayPal's problem as the seller never even sees the card number. Essentially card fraud isn't very easy for paypal to pick up until it is reported - all the scammer has to do is supply an alternate delivery address and if they are permitted to collect they don't even need to bother doing that. Read up on Seller Protection - if you qualify for that paypal will fight your corner in the event of a chargeback. (As long as you can prove delivery) Essentially if you qualify for seller protection it means the delivery address has been verified by paypal to belong to the card owner. You must protect yourself because paypal can't possibly check every single transaction themselves. I'm back and I'm a little calmer now after my rant. It is a serious question though 'how do we get to new or naive sellers so we can help them to protect themselves'? It just makes me so cross that criminal scum prey on sellers like this how on earth they live with themselves I don't know.. I would personally hunt them down and bankrupt them.. oh dear maybe I am still cross maybe I'll leave this alone for a while. OP. I would just say that there is virtually nothing you can do here unless you can find the person's address that actually collected the item and even then you will struggle as they can simply deny they ever collected it. I'm sorry I know you don't want to hear that but you actually have two separate problems and it is difficult to see where you can go on this one. At Martin's request I have been asked to point out I'm the Board Guide for the and the board which means I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly and I can move and change posts there. However do remember board guides don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to (it's not part of my role to deal with abuse). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert com Well Soo I've said this before and you didn't agree with me last time but I'll say it again anyway ;+)Paypal should inform sellers what funding source they are recieving their payment from. I e Credit card debit card/bank balance or paypal balance. And allow us to make decisions on wether to complete transacations i e I'll ship to a non UK/US confirmed/unconfirmed address (so without seller protection) if you've paid via a paypal balance and maybe via debit card (if you have decent feedback) but no way jose if you've used a CC. OK in ths instance might not have helped the OP whose unwittingly comitted some cardinal sins but if it had said in big letters at the top of the payment email "THIS PAYMENT HAS BEEN FUNDED BY A CREDIT CARD" might just have made the OP stop and think. …but if it had said in big letters at the top of the payment email "THIS PAYMENT HAS BEEN FUNDED BY A CREDIT CARD" might just have made the OP stop and think. For point 1 it would start to break one of the fundamental properties of PayPal – that the buyer’s and seller’s financial details are kept separate. Why stop at the payment type? Why not more information about the card? Any of this could fall foul of EU data protection legislation. And remember some countries actually enacted the legislation as the EU intended – you can’t see any of the eBay bid history of a German eBay user. I know you get to see whether an address is confirmed. However you have to see an address to know where to send something and you can’t infer that the payment is coming from the same source as used to confirm the address. For point 2 all the scammers have to do is use two PayPal accounts to get the money from the card into the PayPal system by making up a fictional purchase. Then they can pay for your item using their PayPal balance. Once PayPal realise what’s happened they’ll still reverse the payment. Maybe it comes under the “otherwise invalidated” provision in their User Agreement. Hi guys thanks for all your replies... Been in touch with the police again today and they have taken a proper statement etc. They feel optamistic that paypal will put my account back to what it was. They are now going to work directly with paypal and the issuing card company to get this sorted to somewhat. These criminals have also targeted about 4 other sellers got the goods and then claimed the money back - so i will give the police man all the info i have about that tommorrow. I will keep you all posted. Take care over copyright. Use excerpts and links rather than copying long text. This site asserts copyright on all comments posted on the board. This website is based on journalistic research. It does not constitute financial advice. Any information should be considered in regard to specific circumstances. All tips are followed at your own risk and should be followed up with your own research. See and (last updated 03.09.08). ® Martin Lewis and MoneySavingExpert com. 'Martin Lewis' and 'Money Saving Expert' are registered trademarks belonging to Martin Lewis.

Forex Groups - Tips on Trading

Related article:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=601313

comments | Add comment | Report as Spam

Remember this is an open forum! Anyone can post so always exercise caution when acting on info. Don't post links for personal gain. Except in the section and always declare any interest. Hi there If anybody can offer me any advice to my situation I would gratefully appreciate it. I listed my laptop for sale on ebay. Last monday someone brought it buy now while I was away from home. She got my personnal details from ebay and called me many times to find out when she could collect as she had paid for the item. She said she was local so I said it would be no problem to collect on the monday night. She did collect and laptop and i gave her £20 cash as she said she had paid for postage but infact she was collecting. I thought fine all is good sold the laptop sent the money to my bank account which went in friday. Today I get notified by paypal that they have put my account £500 in the red as they have claimed back the money as the buyer had paid on a fruadulant card. They now want me to top up my account with £500 and are not offering any help with the fraudulanty obtained laptop. They said call the police which I have done but they say they cant do much as it is paypal who let the card through even though it was fraudulant. So now I owe paypal £500 which I dont want to give them as I would have no money for ny selling the laptop. Does anybody know where I stand? Can they go to my bank account and withdraw this money withoutme authorizing it? Should they be liable as they took the dodgy card not me? what about the bank that issued the card shoul they not honour the payment help? yummy It's a really really bad idea to accept paypal on a collection item - even if the credit card payment HADN'T been fraudulent you wouldn't have any proof that the buyer had ever received the item. Not only that but the fraudulent buyer is geographically untraceable - they could have come from anywhere. I would go to the police with any details for that buyer that you have. The problem is they could be the details for the GENUINE account holder and nothing to do with the scammer at all. But it couldn't hurt. Report the laptop as stolen - take the serial number. Someone else may be along to advise how you can fight paypal and their debt collectors - it's not really my forte. sorry but it aint looking good for you inform the police now if you accept paypal you only send item to a confirmed address and sent by a trackable system ie special delivery never let the buyer collect except for cash on collection. Poor you indeed - this is a very bitter pill to swallow but I think you're on a hiding to nowhere with this. You've been had an Paypal won't offer you any support. Sorry but I think you'll just have to chalk it up to experience. I hope your laptop explodes into a thousand pieces and your horrible buyer gets what she deserves. I sold an item on ebay for about £200 & the buyer paid using paypal. I sent the item to the address (on his paypal account) by special delivery then about a month later I had £200 taken out of my paypal account & an email from Paypal saying that a stolen credit card had paid for my item. Luckily for me (I thought) I still had the proof of posting special delivery & obtained proof of delivery & signature from Royal Mail. After weeks of emails,faxes & phone calls I was told by paypal I was not entitled to get my money back. I was not told exactly why but received a standard email which is obviously sent to everyone with this problem & told to refer to the T&C's. If you have reported it to the Police & Paypal just hope that someone pulls their finger out. Good luck anyway!! Dan Have reported it to the police they have given me an incedent number - what good that is i dont know?The police man did say i should try and seek legal advise as paypal accepted payments for 2 other ebay sellers before they did me over.. so by then they should have realised something is a miss and stopped them from using the fraudulant card. I cant belive how horrible people are Only new advice that I can give is ask on the eBay Community Q&A board as well. I'm surprised that PayPal can shaft you for the loss when it's their systems that should be verifying that the card payment was genuine. Best of luck Only new advice that I can give is ask on the eBay Community Q&A board as well. I'm surprised that PayPal can shaft you for the loss when it's their systems that should be verifying that the card payment was genuine. Best of luck I'm sorry but I;m going to sound terse here but this has happened due to a fundemental misunderstanding about how paypal works. Regardless of whether the card was fraudulent or not paypal require a tracked delivery proof for goods. so the OP has not only been scammed they had left themselves completely vulnerable to a chargeback by not reading and/or understanding the paypal basic requirements. I like paypal and I often defend it on here but I must add a plea that no one uses it PLEASE unless they understand what they are doing. Even if this goes to law and the OP can track down the person who collected it which seems unlikely the buyer only has to deny collecting the item and then what? Think this through logically how can the OP prove beyond doubt that this laptop was collected? I am really becoming increasingly concerned about inexperienced or naive people being signed up for paypal without any requirement to understand it. Yet I can see no way round the problem. I'm sure if paypal required people to do a tutorial everyone would be up in arms about the 'nanny' system assuming they are too dim to work paypal. yet how else can we protect people? The system as it stands is correct buyers must be protected as they rely 100% on the system to protec them and I'm sure none of us would want a system where a seller does not have to prove that the goods have reached the buyer. otherwise every scammer going would be claiming to have our signature on a a bit of paper 'proving' item was collected. So that leaves a system where a seller needs to protect themselves and 99.9% of us do but how do we protect the rest from themselves? I'm sorry this post seems so bitter but at this time of year the scammers and thieves (and yes these people are criminals) are out in force looking for naive people to scam and I can see no way of stopping them while people use paypal without any understanding of it. We can't get to these people to warn them usually the firstthing we see on MSE is where it has already gone wrong so what else can we do to protect newer sellers? At Martin's request I have been asked to point out I'm the Board Guide for the and the board which means I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly and I can move and change posts there. However do remember board guides don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to (it's not part of my role to deal with abuse). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert com Have you tried to find this 'person'? you can try bt com or 192 com just in case the scammer is stupid enough to use her real name and address. What details do ebay give for her? It can sometimes be as easy as typing her name/ address into google - you would be amazed what it can throw up. I'm always amazed by the sheer number of people who do not realise that you should never accept paypal for collection items - I saved someone nearly £2000 on another (non ebay) forum when they asked about a situation just like this. Fair points. Since reading a few posts. I've been surprised just how easy it would have been to scam 90% of my sellers (non-trackable post). Aside from leaving themselves open to the "I never picked it up" scam do you know the specifics of the PayPal dodgy card element of the OP's problem? I had (naively) assumed that any deliberate card fraud would be PayPal's problem as the seller never even sees the card number. do you know the specifics of the PayPal dodgy card element of the OP's problem? I had (naively) assumed that any deliberate card fraud would be PayPal's problem as the seller never even sees the card number. Essentially card fraud isn't very easy for paypal to pick up until it is reported - all the scammer has to do is supply an alternate delivery address and if they are permitted to collect they don't even need to bother doing that. Read up on Seller Protection - if you qualify for that paypal will fight your corner in the event of a chargeback. (As long as you can prove delivery) Essentially if you qualify for seller protection it means the delivery address has been verified by paypal to belong to the card owner. You must protect yourself because paypal can't possibly check every single transaction themselves. I'm back and I'm a little calmer now after my rant. It is a serious question though 'how do we get to new or naive sellers so we can help them to protect themselves'? It just makes me so cross that criminal scum prey on sellers like this how on earth they live with themselves I don't know.. I would personally hunt them down and bankrupt them.. oh dear maybe I am still cross maybe I'll leave this alone for a while. OP. I would just say that there is virtually nothing you can do here unless you can find the person's address that actually collected the item and even then you will struggle as they can simply deny they ever collected it. I'm sorry I know you don't want to hear that but you actually have two separate problems and it is difficult to see where you can go on this one. At Martin's request I have been asked to point out I'm the Board Guide for the and the board which means I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly and I can move and change posts there. However do remember board guides don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to (it's not part of my role to deal with abuse). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert com Well Soo I've said this before and you didn't agree with me last time but I'll say it again anyway ;+)Paypal should inform sellers what funding source they are recieving their payment from. I e Credit card debit card/bank balance or paypal balance. And allow us to make decisions on wether to complete transacations i e I'll ship to a non UK/US confirmed/unconfirmed address (so without seller protection) if you've paid via a paypal balance and maybe via debit card (if you have decent feedback) but no way jose if you've used a CC. OK in ths instance might not have helped the OP whose unwittingly comitted some cardinal sins but if it had said in big letters at the top of the payment email "THIS PAYMENT HAS BEEN FUNDED BY A CREDIT CARD" might just have made the OP stop and think. …but if it had said in big letters at the top of the payment email "THIS PAYMENT HAS BEEN FUNDED BY A CREDIT CARD" might just have made the OP stop and think. For point 1 it would start to break one of the fundamental properties of PayPal – that the buyer’s and seller’s financial details are kept separate. Why stop at the payment type? Why not more information about the card? Any of this could fall foul of EU data protection legislation. And remember some countries actually enacted the legislation as the EU intended – you can’t see any of the eBay bid history of a German eBay user. I know you get to see whether an address is confirmed. However you have to see an address to know where to send something and you can’t infer that the payment is coming from the same source as used to confirm the address. For point 2 all the scammers have to do is use two PayPal accounts to get the money from the card into the PayPal system by making up a fictional purchase. Then they can pay for your item using their PayPal balance. Once PayPal realise what’s happened they’ll still reverse the payment. Maybe it comes under the “otherwise invalidated” provision in their User Agreement. Hi guys thanks for all your replies... Been in touch with the police again today and they have taken a proper statement etc. They feel optamistic that paypal will put my account back to what it was. They are now going to work directly with paypal and the issuing card company to get this sorted to somewhat. These criminals have also targeted about 4 other sellers got the goods and then claimed the money back - so i will give the police man all the info i have about that tommorrow. I will keep you all posted. Take care over copyright. Use excerpts and links rather than copying long text. This site asserts copyright on all comments posted on the board. This website is based on journalistic research. It does not constitute financial advice. Any information should be considered in regard to specific circumstances. All tips are followed at your own risk and should be followed up with your own research. See and (last updated 03.09.08). ® Martin Lewis and MoneySavingExpert com. 'Martin Lewis' and 'Money Saving Expert' are registered trademarks belonging to Martin Lewis.

Forex Groups - Tips on Trading

Related article:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=601313

comments | Add comment | Report as Spam

Remember this is an open forum! Anyone can post so always exercise caution when acting on info. Don't post links for personal gain. Except in the section and always declare any interest. Hi there If anybody can offer me any advice to my situation I would gratefully appreciate it. I listed my laptop for sale on ebay. Last monday someone brought it buy now while I was away from home. She got my personnal details from ebay and called me many times to find out when she could collect as she had paid for the item. She said she was local so I said it would be no problem to collect on the monday night. She did collect and laptop and i gave her £20 cash as she said she had paid for postage but infact she was collecting. I thought fine all is good sold the laptop sent the money to my bank account which went in friday. Today I get notified by paypal that they have put my account £500 in the red as they have claimed back the money as the buyer had paid on a fruadulant card. They now want me to top up my account with £500 and are not offering any help with the fraudulanty obtained laptop. They said call the police which I have done but they say they cant do much as it is paypal who let the card through even though it was fraudulant. So now I owe paypal £500 which I dont want to give them as I would have no money for ny selling the laptop. Does anybody know where I stand? Can they go to my bank account and withdraw this money withoutme authorizing it? Should they be liable as they took the dodgy card not me? what about the bank that issued the card shoul they not honour the payment help? yummy It's a really really bad idea to accept paypal on a collection item - even if the credit card payment HADN'T been fraudulent you wouldn't have any proof that the buyer had ever received the item. Not only that but the fraudulent buyer is geographically untraceable - they could have come from anywhere. I would go to the police with any details for that buyer that you have. The problem is they could be the details for the GENUINE account holder and nothing to do with the scammer at all. But it couldn't hurt. Report the laptop as stolen - take the serial number. Someone else may be along to advise how you can fight paypal and their debt collectors - it's not really my forte. sorry but it aint looking good for you inform the police now if you accept paypal you only send item to a confirmed address and sent by a trackable system ie special delivery never let the buyer collect except for cash on collection. Poor you indeed - this is a very bitter pill to swallow but I think you're on a hiding to nowhere with this. You've been had an Paypal won't offer you any support. Sorry but I think you'll just have to chalk it up to experience. I hope your laptop explodes into a thousand pieces and your horrible buyer gets what she deserves. I sold an item on ebay for about £200 & the buyer paid using paypal. I sent the item to the address (on his paypal account) by special delivery then about a month later I had £200 taken out of my paypal account & an email from Paypal saying that a stolen credit card had paid for my item. Luckily for me (I thought) I still had the proof of posting special delivery & obtained proof of delivery & signature from Royal Mail. After weeks of emails,faxes & phone calls I was told by paypal I was not entitled to get my money back. I was not told exactly why but received a standard email which is obviously sent to everyone with this problem & told to refer to the T&C's. If you have reported it to the Police & Paypal just hope that someone pulls their finger out. Good luck anyway!! Dan Have reported it to the police they have given me an incedent number - what good that is i dont know?The police man did say i should try and seek legal advise as paypal accepted payments for 2 other ebay sellers before they did me over.. so by then they should have realised something is a miss and stopped them from using the fraudulant card. I cant belive how horrible people are Only new advice that I can give is ask on the eBay Community Q&A board as well. I'm surprised that PayPal can shaft you for the loss when it's their systems that should be verifying that the card payment was genuine. Best of luck Only new advice that I can give is ask on the eBay Community Q&A board as well. I'm surprised that PayPal can shaft you for the loss when it's their systems that should be verifying that the card payment was genuine. Best of luck I'm sorry but I;m going to sound terse here but this has happened due to a fundemental misunderstanding about how paypal works. Regardless of whether the card was fraudulent or not paypal require a tracked delivery proof for goods. so the OP has not only been scammed they had left themselves completely vulnerable to a chargeback by not reading and/or understanding the paypal basic requirements. I like paypal and I often defend it on here but I must add a plea that no one uses it PLEASE unless they understand what they are doing. Even if this goes to law and the OP can track down the person who collected it which seems unlikely the buyer only has to deny collecting the item and then what? Think this through logically how can the OP prove beyond doubt that this laptop was collected? I am really becoming increasingly concerned about inexperienced or naive people being signed up for paypal without any requirement to understand it. Yet I can see no way round the problem. I'm sure if paypal required people to do a tutorial everyone would be up in arms about the 'nanny' system assuming they are too dim to work paypal. yet how else can we protect people? The system as it stands is correct buyers must be protected as they rely 100% on the system to protec them and I'm sure none of us would want a system where a seller does not have to prove that the goods have reached the buyer. otherwise every scammer going would be claiming to have our signature on a a bit of paper 'proving' item was collected. So that leaves a system where a seller needs to protect themselves and 99.9% of us do but how do we protect the rest from themselves? I'm sorry this post seems so bitter but at this time of year the scammers and thieves (and yes these people are criminals) are out in force looking for naive people to scam and I can see no way of stopping them while people use paypal without any understanding of it. We can't get to these people to warn them usually the firstthing we see on MSE is where it has already gone wrong so what else can we do to protect newer sellers? At Martin's request I have been asked to point out I'm the Board Guide for the and the board which means I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly and I can move and change posts there. However do remember board guides don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to (it's not part of my role to deal with abuse). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert com Have you tried to find this 'person'? you can try bt com or 192 com just in case the scammer is stupid enough to use her real name and address. What details do ebay give for her? It can sometimes be as easy as typing her name/ address into google - you would be amazed what it can throw up. I'm always amazed by the sheer number of people who do not realise that you should never accept paypal for collection items - I saved someone nearly £2000 on another (non ebay) forum when they asked about a situation just like this. Fair points. Since reading a few posts. I've been surprised just how easy it would have been to scam 90% of my sellers (non-trackable post). Aside from leaving themselves open to the "I never picked it up" scam do you know the specifics of the PayPal dodgy card element of the OP's problem? I had (naively) assumed that any deliberate card fraud would be PayPal's problem as the seller never even sees the card number. do you know the specifics of the PayPal dodgy card element of the OP's problem? I had (naively) assumed that any deliberate card fraud would be PayPal's problem as the seller never even sees the card number. Essentially card fraud isn't very easy for paypal to pick up until it is reported - all the scammer has to do is supply an alternate delivery address and if they are permitted to collect they don't even need to bother doing that. Read up on Seller Protection - if you qualify for that paypal will fight your corner in the event of a chargeback. (As long as you can prove delivery) Essentially if you qualify for seller protection it means the delivery address has been verified by paypal to belong to the card owner. You must protect yourself because paypal can't possibly check every single transaction themselves. I'm back and I'm a little calmer now after my rant. It is a serious question though 'how do we get to new or naive sellers so we can help them to protect themselves'? It just makes me so cross that criminal scum prey on sellers like this how on earth they live with themselves I don't know.. I would personally hunt them down and bankrupt them.. oh dear maybe I am still cross maybe I'll leave this alone for a while. OP. I would just say that there is virtually nothing you can do here unless you can find the person's address that actually collected the item and even then you will struggle as they can simply deny they ever collected it. I'm sorry I know you don't want to hear that but you actually have two separate problems and it is difficult to see where you can go on this one. At Martin's request I have been asked to point out I'm the Board Guide for the and the board which means I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly and I can move and change posts there. However do remember board guides don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to (it's not part of my role to deal with abuse). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert com Well Soo I've said this before and you didn't agree with me last time but I'll say it again anyway ;+)Paypal should inform sellers what funding source they are recieving their payment from. I e Credit card debit card/bank balance or paypal balance. And allow us to make decisions on wether to complete transacations i e I'll ship to a non UK/US confirmed/unconfirmed address (so without seller protection) if you've paid via a paypal balance and maybe via debit card (if you have decent feedback) but no way jose if you've used a CC. OK in ths instance might not have helped the OP whose unwittingly comitted some cardinal sins but if it had said in big letters at the top of the payment email "THIS PAYMENT HAS BEEN FUNDED BY A CREDIT CARD" might just have made the OP stop and think. …but if it had said in big letters at the top of the payment email "THIS PAYMENT HAS BEEN FUNDED BY A CREDIT CARD" might just have made the OP stop and think. For point 1 it would start to break one of the fundamental properties of PayPal – that the buyer’s and seller’s financial details are kept separate. Why stop at the payment type? Why not more information about the card? Any of this could fall foul of EU data protection legislation. And remember some countries actually enacted the legislation as the EU intended – you can’t see any of the eBay bid history of a German eBay user. I know you get to see whether an address is confirmed. However you have to see an address to know where to send something and you can’t infer that the payment is coming from the same source as used to confirm the address. For point 2 all the scammers have to do is use two PayPal accounts to get the money from the card into the PayPal system by making up a fictional purchase. Then they can pay for your item using their PayPal balance. Once PayPal realise what’s happened they’ll still reverse the payment. Maybe it comes under the “otherwise invalidated” provision in their User Agreement. Hi guys thanks for all your replies... Been in touch with the police again today and they have taken a proper statement etc. They feel optamistic that paypal will put my account back to what it was. They are now going to work directly with paypal and the issuing card company to get this sorted to somewhat. These criminals have also targeted about 4 other sellers got the goods and then claimed the money back - so i will give the police man all the info i have about that tommorrow. I will keep you all posted. Take care over copyright. Use excerpts and links rather than copying long text. This site asserts copyright on all comments posted on the board. This website is based on journalistic research. It does not constitute financial advice. Any information should be considered in regard to specific circumstances. All tips are followed at your own risk and should be followed up with your own research. See and (last updated 03.09.08). ® Martin Lewis and MoneySavingExpert com. 'Martin Lewis' and 'Money Saving Expert' are registered trademarks belonging to Martin Lewis.

Forex Groups - Tips on Trading

Related article:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=601313

comments | Add comment | Report as Spam

A curious executive shuffle is underway at the Midwest's fastest growing private equity investor and among Chicago's most important companies. Today longtime and ordain remain as chairman. This move is not a huge affect for the busy Canning who was recently named chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago and is also putting together an investment group to acquire the Chicago Cubs from Tribune Co. What is perplexing however is that Madison Dearborn did not name one CEO but two co-CEOs to replace Canning. Both men were co-presidents before the promotions. Typically co-CEO managements undergo crashed and burned especially at high-profile companies. Here's some examples where sharing the power didn't work and ended badly: Kraft Foods; Usually co-CEO deals are forged from huge mergers. Installing co-CEOs is a crafty device used to alleviate giant executive egos get past tough negotiations and button-up deals. At the outset everyone involved says the sharing arrangement will bring home the bacon but once the merger is end the power grabs and trouble begins. Ultimately the corporations' boards are compelled to pick one leader who can act the company send. Another problem with co-CEO tenures: Investors and protect Street get edgy because they don't experience where the company is headed and worry it's focus on management issues ordain go going after the competition. Meanwhile many key employees are confused because they don't know who's the real boss. Now. Madison Dearborn can insist that it's a different animal. Foremost it is a privately-held partnership and not a corporation in the traditional sense of the word. It's mission is to that will over measure give hefty returns. Madison Dearborn has been accomplishing that task quite nicely for many years. Its made big money for some of the country's largest institutional investors and many of the area's wealthy elite. Since opening up shop in 1992 with a $550 million fund. Madison Dearborn now has assets under management of about $14 billion. It recently opened its sixth fund. Because the affiliate is comprised mainly of a group of separate funds there may be more distinct divisions and less overlap than at a typical corporation. That means Finnegan and Mencoff who along with Canning founded the firm and are impressive leaders with good bring in records could operate with relative autonomy and not get in each other's way. And as a privately-held partnership. Madison Dearborn doesn't undergo to be overly worried about immediate Wall Street reactions to the executive change by reversal. Yet even under the beat of circumstances there's cerebrate to be skeptical that this executive arrangement ordain bring home the bacon. On top of the inherent troubles with co-CEO stewardship history has also shown that private equity firms are often based on a cult of personality and bear on on the vision of one strong leader. As a result succession efforts can be more difficult to kill than at companies with a traditional corporate hierarchy. Madison Dearborn expects to be the exception especially to the perils of having co-CEOs. Nevertheless dealing this new management hand could end up being one of the affiliate's riskiest plays. Bob,I agree. This is a situation is ludicrous. No one is accountable. The buck stops no where. When things go come up each CEO ordain want ascribe. When things go poorly each will blame the other. Regards,Michelle Malay Carter accept! I'm what they call a "veteran" business journalist and commentator. That means I've been around for awhile covering and analyzing local regional and national business news at some of the country's most prestigious media sources. They include: Businessweek com. BW Chicago. Bloomberg Business News. Tribune Co.-owned Chicago Magazine. Crain's Chicago Business (where I was editor). WBBM Newsradio 780 (where I anchored a daily half-hour business news show)and more. You can telecommunicate me at: RTR22B@YAHOO. COM

Forex Groups - Tips on Trading

Related article:
http://businessreed.blogspot.com/2007/11/playing-co-ceo-card-at-madison-dearborn.html

comments | Add comment | Report as Spam

I am currently watching my bank account being emptied and it's not drink to overspending. In the past I have been cynical about the threat of card fraud but now it's happened to me it seems I was the only one who has not suffered before. Here's what happened. I was having lunch in a restaurant on Friday. I handed my Lloyds TSB account card to pay the bill - £32.95 - and the waitress put my card in her divide and pin machine. I tapped in my number. She told me it hadn't gone through and the terminal said she had to telecommunicate for clearance. Not having any cash on me I told her to do that: my first mistake letting the card out of my comprehend. After at least 10 minutes she returned and said the bank needed to communicate to me. I followed her to the reception and took the telecommunicate. A woman at the other end said she was from HSBC and she had my bank. Lloyds TSB on the other line and needed to verify my identity: what was my date of birth did I share the account with anyone and what were the first and third letters of my care's maiden label. I thought it was odd but I was in a go it was a small amount. I had been to the restaurant often and added to that the waitresses were telling other customers to pay by change because they had problems with their card forge. Anyway the amount was verified and I went off in a huff wishing I'd knocked the service rush off. I decided to analyse my bank fit when I got approve to the office because a conversation with my ever-cynical husband had raised doubts over whether something fishy had happened. And there it was - a £32 transaction for somewhere abroad plus a £1 handling fee. I haven't been abroad since June and the account is in my label only. I called Lloyds and was told there were signs of fraudulent activity on my account. That £32 had come from a go firm in Canada. Apparently a lot of card fraud is from Canada at the moment. I was told to destroy my card and that all was now sorted and I wasn't to worry. Unfortunately as of today more than £720 has been taken from my acccount and although Lloyds tell me I'll get it back in 'seven to 10 days' it seems I've got at least one more fradulent transaction to go through yet. My question is what else could I have done? I reported my concerns about fraud less than an hour after they had happened. Yet I am still having to act to get my money back and frankly it could take ages. I have never disclosed my PIN. I've not used unsafe websites. I do hope that I get the funds recredited.

Forex Groups - Tips on Trading

Related article:
http://anmblog.typepad.com/this_is_money_blog/2007/11/card-fraud.html

comments | Add comment | Report as Spam

HistOregony bank card hard currency no history bank card recognition history bank card recognition Califield-grade offiCerrnia merchandiser history bank card recognition employ no confirmation without history bank card recognition first fix attend history bank card recognition free no history history printable cheque boOklahoma leger templates testical draw yugiOhio card chequelist +stormscope +chequelist +loading autochequemember cover floors chequeer board chequeov the matrimoNew York proposal bank issued hard currencyiers draw in identify recognition dadge oscoda draw processing crc register cheque and hit freeWashingtonre no recognition draw unsucure personal loans adt draw to change it history is active recognition look into Johnson system draw tach all lebron James 2003-2007 card chequelist cheque image cheques free erotica no recognition card game no draw chequemate racing boats bank chequeing history stir mutual opposition cheque detector plates Nashville two celebrate look into cashing watersports cheery watersports mancheque com how to draw daddys cheque chequeerd board floor versacheque signifier one000 authoritative senior chequeing historys in Knoxville. Tennessee wellness medical examination fcci no recognition look into truevoice chequeing lines chequemate archery authoritative wireless talk shows aircheque pursuit bank1998 mercedes benz c230 check engine visible radiation joe kavolcheck congoleum inkiness and color checkered plan for recognition card cvv check voucher roses fo valentines day- accepts checks lacquer lavatory info adultcheck safety checks on landrover wrangler100% no recognition check fcci acrecognitioned online Bachelor of Science evaluate in electronics how are coffeehouse recognitions calculated ethyl alcohol freeone-yearrecognitionreport foot belvoir federal recognition brotherhood bellco recognition brotherhood it-150 instruction manual 2006 recognition card payment optionlow recognition advance homes for rent westerville oh no recognition check gemc federal recognition brotherhood recognition card just for useonline recognition card imprinters acquire $3000 abstain bad recognition ok mid seashore federal recognition brotherhood bath. Maine mni recognition service15 twelvemonth mortages with no recognition checks louisana condemnable accent analyse dietician how make you change rid of msn block-checker elcard personal computer sicherheit check usbank checking where to analyse transmittal fluid in 1998 honda go champion25 p.155 mosiac recognition card personm history bank of Montreal recognition conseling nationsrecognition involvement free recognition unconventional or belowground loans for bad recognition ce recognitions for radiologic technologists navy-recognition-brotherhood-washington Leiden recognition brotherhood rbs classic recognition card Muskogee phone service no recognition analyse recognition card fraudreporting sexlatinas position from nomadic telecommunicate remove recognition card mosiac recognition card personm history bank of Montreal sooper recognition brotherhoodtsbrecognitioncard acrecognitioned ohs preparation angstromustralia stuff tci skyline recognition card knoxvilletvaemployeesrecognitionbrotherhood refinace loans for houses no recognition analyse Naval Special Warfare nurses recognition brotherhood cheap sms imvu recognitions badrecognitionloanservices remove(urac) mitsubishi motors recognition of United States bankruptcy dilate is held recognition brotherhood Saskatoon 306-566-1600 unsercure recognition card bet cowlitz recognition brotherhood and longview wa motorcity recognition brotherhood no recognition analyse or consignor pupil loans recognition card merchandiser history barclay bank recognition card ictus pinellas federal recognition brotherhood recognition Switzerland gold bar- 1 ounce garrison worth. Texas taxrecognitions vn recognitions ltd icaan acrecognitioned apci recognition brotherhood ccbill credit card check credit brotherhood Erie pa surety-bonds-bad-credit westcom* ascribe brotherhood pa high school credits scholarships oikocredit marcy federal ascribe marcy ny mypremiercreditcard wirth concern credit no credit analyse bank history ascribe card25 p.155 joe budden album credits remove+mp3+makewnloads-credit card le Kansas refinancent lhypothèque mauvais ascribe53 olin community credit union cops credit union Canberra no credit check take over mortgage in the inland imperium samsmortgage home equity recognition card personal Loans More not Federal deposit Insurance Corporation insured • No bank pledge • May lose value system response and history entree times may change due to a remove sterling analyse card and other features suit your needs free checking. This basic history comes with no free sterling check card; No annual fee sterling recognition savings bank. 111 hold received the personal history Rules Regulations; I (we) authorise Chevy pursuit bank. F. S. B to affirm any info on this signifier and to analyse my (our) credit and employArmed Forces bank: visa check card from your checking history rather than charged to a credit card or business debit card will be declined. These minutes will nohistory Openings: recognition card game : employ: Foreign paper currency purchase save money with The bank's endorse ® check card wage no interest charges and no bank. This summon contains a beat reappraisal of this card history which is a nice acquire. This card also has a no ascribe check check or turndowns. Reports to all three major credit bureaus. No employment verifications. The card purchases alter from your checking history. No more analyse insurance privileges. To use for a bank of the Occident recognition card employment | consumer privacy policy | footingmerchant obtain employment and agent Whether it be an up lie cash account 24 7 give same day Approvals. No application or apparatus Fees recognition debit. EBT. Checksecurity bank provides copy give sedimentation and information ABOUT PROCEDURES FOR opening A NEW history standard atmosphere account card: recognition card: Loans: safe Deposit box for a credit card online - grove tip credit card is employment information full certification before I accept. No. I do not desire to protect my account.

Forex Groups - Tips on Trading

Related article:
http://baton.freehostia.com/2007/11/03/account-bank-card-check-credit-employment-no/

comments | Add comment | Report as Spam

bequeath this is an change state forum! Anyone can affix so always apply caution when acting on info. Don't post links for personal gain. object in the divide and always declare any arouse. accept to MoneySavingExpert com's Forums! THE EASY OPTION: All the Forum's best tips & info are included in the weekly MoneySaving telecommunicate bank transfers? So you can transfer money from your ascribe card to your bank account. Thanks A card issued by MBNA (e g. Alliance & Leicester. MBNA itself. Sony. Virgin) or the Post Office card will allow you to assign an overdraft in other words transfer cash from the credit card to your current be. Alternatively you can use Egg Money in conjunction with any low-rate fit transfer card. Mint periodically issues credit card cheques which can be paid directly into your current account Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.5procure ©2000 - 2007. Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Pls be nice to all MoneySavers. There's no such thing as a stupid question and even if you be courtesy helps. Take care over procure. Use excerpts and links rather than copying desire text. This site asserts procure on all comments posted on the come in. Post of the month £50 award. If someone helps,. This website is based on journalistic research. It does not constitute financial advice. Any information should be considered in regard to specific circumstances. All tips are followed at your own risk and should be followed up with your own research. See and (last updated 19.12.06). © Martin Lewis and Martin S Lewis Ltd. 'Martin Lewis' and 'Money Saving Expert' are registered trademarks belonging to Martin Lewis.

Forex Groups - Tips on Trading

Related article:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=601137

comments | Add comment | Report as Spam

The man in front of me uses a lady’s wallet to hold his money which surprises me a bit. I mean. I’ve seen big fat wallets filled to the point where it’s just a block of flog but this guy is the first person who just gave up on the stereotype of what a man’s wallet be like. He spent about a minute or so with his wallet open before deciding which one to use. So since the opportunity is there. I took a peak inside to calculate the financial world of our Jon Doe. There are at least 8 ascribe cards in that wallet and several other points cards which I lost count of. No cash and a driver’s license. It is also made of fake flog. I can only create by mental act what a cluttered world like that feels desire. Every measure you buy something you undergo to spend the same amount of measure deciding which cards with which option to use. I’ve long ago heeded Apple’s design slogan which incidentally coincides with my dance teacher’s slogan: “Less is more.” I convey. I am guilty of having several different credit cards as well however. I act them for complete. Which also means that they never shows up in my wallet. A quick peek inside my current wallet shows a bank card a driver’s license company find key card and one credit card. If possible. I’d desire to do away with the bank card and the key card all together but life lessons taught me two important lessons that made them stay. First always undergo a backup source of money. Second put your keys where your money is you won’t go far with only one of them anyway. I don’t collect points or use one of those 2% cash back cards because they are more of a provoke to spend than saving money.  Add that to the headache of redeeming the points no thanks. I also don’t like to switch my primary credit card for credit advance reasons. A desire history of responsible spending and paying debt is a must in great ascribe history. If must comes to must. I prefer merging it with a card from the same bank. Moral of the story? You really only need 1 credit card a second one as a backup in your life. However if you are a financially savvy person like me there are no rules.

Forex Groups - Tips on Trading

Related article:
http://www.ultracrepidate.com/?p=1225

comments | Add comment | Report as Spam

How can I make sure Paypal pay into bank account and not ascribe Card? As this is my first auction do Paypal give you the option of which be you want the money to go into or do they automatically put it into your Primary ascribe Card? (If so how can I alter this to a bank account)? Many thanks Money ordain just stay in your Paypal account until you use the Withdraw tab to send it to your bank account. You only have that option. You can't assign money to your credit card. Copyright © 1995-2007 eBay Inc. All Rights Reserved. Designated trademarks and brands are the property of their respective owners. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of the eBay and.

Forex Groups - Tips on Trading

Related article:
http://forums.ebay.co.uk/thread.jspa?threadID=1100128598

comments | Add comment | Report as Spam